Wow, way to poorly apply statistics.

The Yankees have been in the top 3 of attendance the past 10 years (leading all but 3 years, I believe).

You have to go back to 97 to find the last time NY drew less than 3 million fans. Not too bad for a cold weather city.

The LA Dodgers? Seriously? The Dodgers? Best attended team between innings 3 and 7, I suppose?

Let's also not forget that there is no better baseball atmosphere than Yankee Stadium in the postseason. The fans are indeed the most knowledgeable and passionate in sports.

Why do I continue to read the utter nonsense you whip up with no thought whatsoever. This column is downright embarrassing.

You're right, they've been in the top 3 the past 10 years. They've also contended consistently in the past 10 years, winning multiple championships and appearing in the playoffs every single year but one. When you look at a time when they didn't win -- 1982 on -- they drew considerably less than at least three other teams do during their fallow periods. If you have an explanation for this that doesn't at least suggest and element of fair weather fandom, I'd like to hear it.

The term "best fans" is annoying to hear from anybody, but from a "reporter" it's ridiculous.

As a Yankee fan, I'd say they are no better than any other fans, except maybe Phillies fans who are fools ;)

Plus, I've heard Yankee "fans" boo Jeter and Mo. And don't forget the season where A-Rod was booed with every unproductive at bat. Greatest fans ever? Not really.

I wouldn't even count attendance when debating the silly question, since a third of the people at any random Yankee game are tourists anyway.

another stupid article, thanks craig.

It's easy to support a winning team, especially in the most populous city in the U.S. I'd love to see how many of those $2500 box seats were occupied at Yankee Stadium if the team hadn't won a World Series in 101 years. It's easy to support a winner. Try being a Cubs fan. They fill Wrigley Field every game, and let me tell you it's not the ballpark. Cubs fans are the most loyal and knowlegeable in the Show. New Yorkers like Lupica tend to think the world revolves around NYC. He needs to get out more.

S-man,

To say that Yankee fans are more passionate and knowledgeable than other fans is embarrassing. No better atmosphere in the postseason? I guess booing Joe Torre in the 2007 ALDS accounts for "passion" and "atmosphere" that you are talking about?
Yankee fans are no better or worse than any other successful team, that's all I'm saying. Also, I would say the Yankees have the most fans (casual, die-hard, bandwagon, etc), whether or not they attend the stadium during a 75-win season is another story.

Why is it stupid, white? Because of some objective reason you're too lazy or too intellectually challenged to disagree with in a comment, or because it challenges your precious little feelings and predispostions? Has to be one of those, right?

Telling me my articles are stupid does absoltutely nothing to bother me. I've been a lawyer for 11 years, so I've heard way way worse. Saying something is stupid without backing it up at all, however, makes you look either lazy or stupid or both.

But hey, it's your comment. You can do what you want with it.

Having lived in lots of places, I'd say the Dodgers and Cubs fans are the most supportive of baseball, even when the game their team is playing barely resembles the sport.

Oh please, this applies to your team's fans too. Best in "the Show"? No better or worse.
I suppose you forget about the beer-throwing fool or Bartman. Sports fans are pretty much the same all-around.
Cubs fans get credit for loyalty. The best around?
Hardly.

Well, Mr. Calcaterra, if it was your intention to 'kick up a hornet nest' worth of comments, you have definitely succeeded. As a longtime Yankees fan (since 1960), of course, I am going to say that Yankees fans are the best in the world. As a baseball fan, however, I am not enamored with the Steinbrenner family. However, without the Steinbrenners, one can wonder what would have happened to the Yankee franchise.

There are no right or wrong answers to Mr. Lupica's article. Each sports franchise thinks that their fans are the best (and rightfully so). Just wait until the Boston fans sound in later today!

I will say this, going to the old Yankee Stadium was like going to the old Montreal forum, or the old Boston Garden. Each venue was a mecca for its sport.

You also have to consider road draw as well. Venues that normally host 12,000 fans see a huge boost (where they can - Baltimore, Seattle, Oakland, Toronto, KC, etc) when Boston or NY is in town - a reflection of those fan's support which combined with home park attendance would help you analyze who the "best" is - along with merchandise sales.

Craig, you know why it's stupid...because anybody who doesn't bow down at the Yankee altar just has to be stupid. And wrong.

That's what I'm gathering, ecp . . .

A Cub fan knows much about baseball. Losing, bad beer and a massive NYC complex. Thank god the olympic games bypassed on the city. Go Cardinals!!!

God even when Lupica (Mets fan btw) writes a story praising the Yanks, he still comes off like an idiot. Thank god for all the FJM beatings they gave him:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search/label/mike%20lupica

New York = 8.3 million people
Los Angeles = 3.8 million
Chicago = 2.8 million
St. Louis = 354,000

It's easy to draw 3 million people a year in a city where you've got millions of people stacked on top of each other. Try doing it in a town that doesn't even make it into the top 50 of America's biggest cities.

Those are some diehard fans that not only show up when the team is losing, but come back several times throughout the season.

Um, the Yankees won more games than any other MLB club in the 1980's so once again your vast storehouse of baseball knowledge shines through.

Pretty amazing.

I lived in Chicago for several years. Cubs fans leave as soon as they stop selling beer. I went to one game where we walked up to the window before the game started (against the Giants) and were able to buy tickets right behind home plate. There was hardly anyone there. They sell out when the Cardinals are in town. Many of those fans are Cardinals fans. I've also lived in San Francisco and Atlanta. Cardinals fans always come out when our team is in town. One game in ATL was standing room only and I overheard a Braves fan complaining about all the Cardinals fans in town.

Cardinals fans are by far the best fans and most knowledgeable about their team.

I lived in NYC from 96-99, and attended lots of Yankees games during those years. These were the years when the Yankees were at their best, right? Yet I never had any problem getting bleacher seats; I'd just show up an hour early and stand in a short line. In fact, looking back at attendance figures, it's amazing low the numbers are. More people attended Yankee Stadium in 1988 than either 96 or 97! Consistent sell-outs only date back 5 years or so, which indicates that the product on the field doesn't have as much to do with attendance as one might suspect.

Classy reply, Craig. Way to attack your own readers.

Why is it that you fail to note that Lupica is hands-down the most vocal critic of the Yankees in NYC and possibly the country?

I'm gonna go with: "I had no clue."

*shock*

Cardinals fans are by far the best fans and most knowledgeable about their team.

Best fans in the world my ass!
- Keith Law

:)

Yankees have the best fans is not far fetched because they have the highest viewership of any Baseball team in America. Even when they are bad they fill up their stadium. It could be 10am on a tuesday and they would. Even when they are bad they get people to watch them on TV. I don't think the issue is Lupica being pro Yankee but you being anti-Yankee.

why are the comments always more interesting than the article?? anybody??

you can find a yankees fan in any city in america, not to mention a yankees hat or jacket. thats why we're the best!! go yanks!!!

Yankees Rule!!!!!

Look up the best home attendance of all time has been The Dodgers!!!
Look at the Guinness Book of World Records - The Dodgers are listed number all-time!

Except the data doesn't back that up, darin. When they were bad, they were as low as 11th in the 14-team AL in attendance. Even when they started to be good again -- winning championships -- they were not first in attendance. The consistent sellouts or near-sellouts didn't really hit until 2003 or so.

Did I say anything that contradicted that, s? They won a lot of games in the 80s, sure, but between 1982 and 1995, they "weren't playing as well" as they did when they were winning the World Series. Please advise if that -- which is what I wrote -- was innaccurate. But even if you were right, would the fans not supporting the team when they're actually good help or hurt an argument that the fans are "the best in baseball?" I think it would be worse for them, right? I mean, if they don't even show when the team was leading the league in wins over a decade . . .

As for "attacking the readers," this may shock you, but I don't have a "turn the other cheek" rule on this blog. If someone calls me or my work stupid you can bet I'll return the favor. Only when I do it, I'll provide some evidence to back up my accusation, which is less than Mr. White did.

No, Yankee more viewers hands down.
"New York topped all local markets with an 18.6/33 for Game 2 followed by Hartford (11.5/20) and then Los Angeles (10.8/23). For Game 1 on Friday night, New York posted a 16.7/27, followed by Los Angeles (9.1/19), Hartford (9.1/15) and Boston (7.1/13)."

And that explains why when I attended a Dodgers game I got a great shot of the "GO BLUE" sign outside of the stadium with all the empty blue seats in the stadium. I love that picture! No one was at the game.

Sorry Craig but the facts don't back up what you are saying. Yankees have the highest viewership, even when they were bad i.e. last year.

Seriously, how is this even an argument? The Cubs have the best fans in the world. Who else would go watch their team fail 101 seasons in a row? Yet they sell out almost every game. Yankee fans are total douchebags. As a die hard Red Sox fan, I must admit that the majority of our fans suck a whole lot too--but at least a large part of our fan base isn't from New Jersey.

Boston Red Sox Fans all the way! C'mon look how many years it took us to win the World Series and we still supported our "Bean Town Boys"....nothing like being in Fenway supporting the Red Sox...nothing like it in the WORLD!

Craig, I remember Steinbrenner, at some point in the 80s or maybe even the 90s, making a lot of noise about wanting to move the Yanks because the Bronx wasn't safe, was a bad place to come to, fans were staying away from games because it was too dangerous, etc. I don't know if those things were true or not - I've never lived in the Bronx - but I imagine that if a team's owner is bashing the team's home, it probably impacts attendance in a negative way, apart from what's going on on the field.

Bravo at trying to come up with a way to quantify "best fans". I got more out of your bit than I did out of Lupica's.

Why are we limited to the last year? I'll grant you that they've led the league in attendance and viewership in recent years, but they certainly did not -- and fell much farther than other teams -- when they were not good. And no, I will not count 2008 as "bad." They missed the playoffs, but they won 89 games and had every expectation of winning going into the season. They lost between 86 and 95 games in the late 80s/early 90s and their attendance fell off to 11th, 11th, 9th and 9th over a four year period. If they did that again today, would attendance stay high, or dip again? I don't know the answer to that question, but historically, people lose interest when the Yankees play poorly.

Well my gracious . . . .the "best" fans? Thank goodness that most of the real Yankee fans are not as elitist and egotistical as the ones who have commented in this blog. Who is to say what makes up a "best" fan? People love the game of baseball all over this country . . . and many many teams have very loyal and dedicated fans, my own Red Sox included. But I would not ever make the claim that Red Sox fans are the "best" . . . . perhaps because we Red Sox fans don't need to declare to the world whether or not we are the "best" . . . . our team knows how we feel about them, and that is what matters. Shame on all of you for making genuine love and respect for a sport into some kind of "we're better than you are" taunt. Baseball is AMERICA's game - always has been and always will be. I expect that in kindergarten, but certainly not on an adult blog.

Just the weekly I Hate the Yankees article by this Craig guy.

Anyone can come out for a good team. The best fans could just as easily be quantified as the ones who comes out for the worst no matter what. There will just be fewer of them.

So let's hear it for everyone who renewed their season tickets for the Royals, and Nationals, and even Pirates.

Good point, Shaun. I'm not a New Yorker either -- and I know little about the Bronx -- but I at least Manhattan started to see improvement in crime and general urban decay in the early 90s. I'm sure that to the extent the Bronx have improved, it lagged Manhattan considerably. I also guess that, all things being equal, the Bronx were worse in the late 70s (The Bronx is burning!) than in the late 80s/early 90s.

But, all things weren't equal, as you correctly note. Steinbrenner was really being a jackass for a good while there, and I'm sure he drove people away from his product as a result. People have written how his suspension from running the team laid the groundwork for the rise Jeter/Rivera/Pettitte teams. I bet it helped from a marketing perspective too.

Basically, when Stein put his money into the team, it prospered. When he put his mouth into it, it didn't. He learned that lesson eventually.

Rich - first let me say that I LOVE Wrigley Field and the fans in Chicago (northside, anyway). I've probably been to two dozen games at Wrigley, and have never seen one fight (you certainly can't say that about the Bronx). That said, to say the Cubs fans are the most knowledgeable baseball fans seems to me inaccurate. In my experience, folks went to Wrigley more as a social event than as a sporting event. The people I saw at Wrigley were there to party with their friends, and if they happened to see a good game that was a bonus. Can you imagine Yankee fans (or any other fans)paying big bucks to sit on rooftops across the street during a game . Really, most Cub fans are there for the party, and to enjoy a day in the sun !

When The Yankees hit the road other teams ballparks break records for attendance when The Yankees are in town

Yankee Fans---maybe---curious onlookers wanting to catch a glance at the star studed team---maybe---either way The Yankees platy infront of more fans year in and year out then any other team

dont only think home attendance

What in here is about me hating the Yankees? I link an article that calls Yankee fans the best in the world. I ask whether it's possible to figure that out for sure. I make a stab at it, citing nothing but undisputable facts about attendance and won-loss records. I note that such an approach may not be satisfactory and ask if anyone has any better ideas. I even add some comments in which I -- quite truthfully -- say that Yankees fans are damn good, and that they're among the most knowledgable out there. Please tell me where the hate is.

Or are you one of those people who can't bear to read anything that even suggests that your team and its fans are the bestest things in the whole wide world?

Yankee fans are just dumbstruck with being part of a "herd" they all cheer when things are going great and want everyone to know that they've always supported the club through thick or thin. They don't put a lot of weight on the truth. They think everything in New York is better than anything anywhere else. But Florida is full of all the Fiction fans who left. Still moaning about how "their" ballclub is best. "Their" hot dogs, doorknobs,water,paperclips, etc...are best. They are caged and deprived...working their whole lives to eventually 'escape' and root from afar. Cody Ransom and "Joba the Hut" are examples of how not to bring a minor leaguer up to the Majors.

"Best fans" is such a stupid argument because it requires comparing apples to oranges. The Yankees offer their fans an opportunity to watch a perennial contender and celebrate the greatest legacy of accomplishment in all of sports, not just MLB. Lots of New Yorkers respond accordingly. A team like the Washington Nationals offers its fans an opportunity to watch a hopeless group of sad sacks with no legacy at all. Not as many Washington fans respond enthusiastically to that deal.

If the role were reversed, and the Nationals had played 100+ seasons in DC with 26 World Championships while the Yankees were a recent relo from Canada that lost 100+ games per year, would the fan response in each city be the same or different?

Who knows? You can't measure the quality of fans with any of this crap, because each fan base is being offered a very different product.

Callin Bullsh*t here....
So you only count the fans that show up to the seats? I LOVE the yankess, have since the late 80's (I'm a youngin)!! Never once been to a game. My entire family cheers for the Yanks. Not one of us has sat in a seat yet.
So we don't count?? You can't get an accurate head count on Yankees fans, sorry! We are EVERYWHERE!!!
Nice article, but why not try some online poll or something more accurate?
And by the way, Does it really matter who the better fans are? Just go out and support your team!!!
GO YANKEES!!
~TEXAS GAL

I guess that's why Yankee fans are the best. I consider not making the playoffs as bad. They were bad last year and they broke the attendance record last year. I wonder who had that attendance record that they broke. ?

Dodgers play the Marlins there are more Marlin fans at the game, Yankees play the Marlins there are more Yankee fans at the game.

Here is your Pirates.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/09/500x_pirates1.jpg

I doubt have ever seen more than a handful of Marlins fans at Dodger Stadium for any game. The visiting fans who show up in the largest number for road games tend to Giants and Cubs fans. And even they don't predominate.

The Angels used to have more of an issue of Red Sox and Yankees fans predominating in the crowd, but the Angels have started winning that battle.

So let's hear it for everyone who renewed their season tickets for the Royals, and Nationals, and even Pirates.

Oh come on, what makes you think the 5 total people who go to those games reads CTB? :)

Decades Attendance
Yankees own 5 decades of attendance high
Dodgers own 3 decades of attendance high

The first one-million fan season was in 1920, when 1,289,422 fans attended Yankee games at the Polo Grounds. The first two-million fan season was in 1946, when 2,265,512 fans attended games at Yankee Stadium. The Yankees have beaten the league average for home attendance 83 out of the last 87 years (only during 1990, 1991, 1992 and 1994 did they not accomplish this). In the past seven years, the Yankees have drawn over three million fans each year, with an American League record-setting 4,090,696 in 2005, becoming only the third franchise in sports history to draw over four million in regular season attendance in their own ballpark.[37] The Yankees were the league leaders in "road attendance" in each year from 2001 through 2006.[38]

With the exception of the Dodgers, all the other teams mentioned do not have two baseball clubs in the same city. The Yankees have to compete with the Mets, the Knicks, the Islanders, the Giants and Jets, the Rangers, the Nets, Devils, (did I miss anyone) and Broadway, and tremendous number of other entertainment options in the City that Never Sleeps. Boston closes at 1am. For those who want to see a great show, don't waste your money on St. Louis community theater...go to Broadway. Basically, what I am saying is that in those other cities, their baseball team may be the only game in town. Not so in NY. So I think the Yanks do have the best baseball fans in the world!!

Are the yankees going to admit to the world that they play in a windtunnel that favors hitters. #13 at the plate zzzzZZZZooooommmmmMMM fastball in the back. Yeah,baby, $money.. Johnny Damon,still a Red Sox. CC tabitha is done..His back and arm are finished. Robinson canoe is a classic utility man, kinda like Ken Macha or Mario Mendoza.,. Matsui is already packing to go home,still dreams of being like Suzuki. Posada will need Knee replacement surgery for both knees..poor guy(true player),Burnett ? He needs a "pitch-back" this winter to practice and stop throwing 56 foot curveballs. Bring back Butch Wynegar _-mn-it !

Are the yankees going to admit to the world that they play in a windtunnel that favors hitters. #13 at the plate zzzzZZZZooooommmmmMMM fastball in the back. Yeah,baby, $money.. Johnny Damon,still a Red Sox. CC tabitha is done..His back and arm are finished. Robinson canoe is a classic utility man, kinda like Ken Macha or Mario Mendoza.,. Matsui is already packing to go home,still dreams of being like Suzuki. Posada will need Knee replacement surgery for both knees..poor guy(true player),Burnett ? He needs a "pitch-back" this winter to practice and stop throwing 56 foot curveballs. Bring back Butch Wynegar _-mn-it !

Quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality.

Well said, ladyfan!

When Lupica claims "There aren't fans better than this anywhere in the world", how would he know? I'm sure Man U fans would be willing to argue as would Barcelona fans, Real Madrid fans, Arsenal fans, Chelsea, and on and on. I would Indian fans of their national cricket team would also object. Hyperbole, expect nothing less from Mike.

I constantly hear and/or read about how "knowledgeable" the fans are for this or that team. That's probably the most questionable aspect of this article (and many others) and all of the attendant comments. Exactly how is anyone arriving at the conclusion that any city has more "knowledgeable" fans than another?

I've visited quite a few ballparks over the years, talked to "fans" and haven't been able to figure this conundrum out. And if you read a lot of these blogs, you might easily assume that the most rabid fans who post here day in and day out would be better characterized as "clueless" than "knowledgeable".

I'm just sayin'..................

Now that is an appropriate use of statistics! I love how others do not consider the population of New York! Of course numerically they should draw more...try doing that in the midwest! I also, if I may add, love how the Yankees receive most of the primetime slots for the playoffs. The Phils, the current World Champions, play on cable. It is bizarre and a slap in the face to the MLB as it states being the champion is not the real goal, dating movie stars and utilizing other publicity stunts is where it is at in baseball. That is sad especially when considering MLB approved it.

Everytime you watch the Yankees, you see empty seats. Not in Philly. Everytime you watch the Dodgers, empty seats and cheering that shows a lack of knowledge for the game. Not in Philly. The Cardinal's fans have more of a clue, no one talks about them. There are many clubs that have fans that really care, i.e. Cubs and understand the game. It is not about fashion for them.

Also, yankeefan4life, the Yankees compete with the Mets only. Most of the cities have football, hockey, basketball and some have soccer. Let's all say DUH. We are glad you like New York, but there is a reason everyone does not live there...not everyone likes it. Nice place to visit but...

I would rather live right outside of Philly where we know what a 'good at bat' is and why the infield fly exists along with many other baseball topics that are beyond the fans in other cities.

I always provide a pop quiz when meeting up with a fan from another club.

YOU ATTACK THE COLUMNIST AND YOU BRAG ABOUT HOW THE YANKEES HAVE BEEN IN THE TOP THREE IN ATTENDANCE IN THE LAST TEN YEARS. NOT BAD FOR A CITY OF 8,350,000 PEOPLE. WHILE BOSTON HAS DONE IT WITH A CITY OF 559,000. THE YANKEES HAVE A STADIUM THAT HOLDS OVER 50,000 AND FENWAY HOLDS AROUND 33,000.
THAT YOU ARE A DIEHARD YANKEE FAN IS VERY OBVIOUS BUT WHAT IS NOT IS YOUR FAIRNESS. WHEN YOU BRAG ABOUT THE YANKEES BEING IN THE TOP 3 FOR ATTENDANCE, REMEMBER THE ABOVE FACTS.

Throw put 2008 attendance for Yankee Stadium it was the last year of the Stadium, people for all over came just to say they saw the stadium before it was done. Any 'best fan' would know that. As far as road attendance, I'm pretty sure people go see specific players as much if not more than specific teams when it comes to road stats. Look at road attendance for the Giants from 2001 - 2007, and compare it to when Bonds was hurt (2005) and not playing 2008/09. I think you will see a significant drop in % of seats sold.

Also, if fans think their favorite team is headed in the wrong direction and are unhappy with management how would a 'good fan' show this unhappiness - personally I would not support an owner that in my opinion is trying to ruin 'my' team - so maybe not paying for a seat is the way I show my unhappiness and try to bring about change.

Ladyfan, I am a Yankee fan. I am not an elitist who thinks we have the best fa base in the world and all that, but please don't say that Red Sox fans don't do this and "Red Sox fans don't need to declare to the world whether or not we are the "best" . . . . our team knows how we feel about them" - I've seen more Red Sox bloggers out there saying how the Yankee fan base is all fairweather and theirs is the "best", "most loyal" etc. than Yankees, ad i follow Yankees blogs generally.
This whole argument is stupid. Each team has it's share of fans who are civil and more than it's fair share who are obnoxious and idiotic.

BTW, can you name a game at Fenway where there was no "Yankees Suck" Chant - no matter who was playing there at the time?

They didn't contend last year! They didn't even make the playoffs. The dodgers don't have the road fans the Yankees have. The dodgers have better fans then the Redsux I will give them that. Lol.

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/12/08/David_Ortiz_001__1228775047_5762/499w.jpg

Ber, that was exactly my point. You, as a Yankee fan, don't feel the need to go around telling everyone that you are the "best" fan, and neither do I, even though we root for different teams. If it had been a Red Sox fan who started this whole argument about who has the "best" fans, I would have chastised him just as thoroughly. Because yes, all teams have their fair share of obnoxious fans. Which is why the ones who are not that way should take part in these blogs as well.

To answer your question, I would say about the same amount of games where the words "Red Sox suck" are not heard. It's a deplorable tradition on the part of both teams and certainly not a credit to either.

Craig,
There are a few other extenuating factors you might want to throw into the mix, here, when using the 80's as a benchmark.

One of them has been mentioned: Steinbrenner's mouth. I don't think you can really gauge just how much he pushed Yanks fans away in the early 80's. Driving away Reggie, bagging on Winfield, letting Ricky go (though that was late 80's)..he did little to endear himself to the fans, and lots to drive people out of the ballpark and in fron of their television sets.

Second, you also can underestimate the financial turmoil running through NYC during that time. There was an awful lot of poverty, urban blight, and declining social status. A lot of that reached it's peak in the late 70's and early 80's, and didn't really see whole sale reversal until the late 80's and early 90's. Finally, in the early 90's, the crime rates really started to drop, the urban renewal projects began, and they city sort of righted itself. I don't think it's a coincidence that the declining attendance sort of mirrors the duration of the cities problems.

I attended games (with my father) during the mid 80's. It was not what I would consider a great "scene". The area was in rough shape, it was not what I would consider a "safe" area to wander around in, and while bleacher seats were cheap enough....the more desirable seats were starting to creep up in price. I know that, if the area was in similar shape today...I'd be reticent to take MY young kids to many games...and likely never a night game.

Third, keep in mind that the Yanks probably had the best regional baseball TV coverage in most, if not all, the markets. Channel 11 was a mainstay of most Yanks fans. It was a high powered channel, and they had a GREAT announcing crew. It was also prominently offered in most local cable offerings. There are plenty of fans who preferred, considering the price and "risk", to watch from their couches. Personally, I don't think that makes them any less of a "fan"...so I'm not sure pure ballpark attendance offers you a true picture/headcount.

Also keep in mind (though this may bolster your point) that the Yanks were not the only game in town. You had VERY good football, basketball, and another good baseball team right in the same city. When looking at the numbers, I wonder how many cities can boast the same thing? Even today...you see an increase in attendance for the Yanks over the past 15 years, but you've seen a dramtic DECLINE in attendance at Knicks games. You wonder if there is some amount of "rob peter to pay paul" in the fandom, and also in attendance.

Yes, the teams were not nearly as good as during other periods of Yankee history...and yes, that's likely a factor. But there may be some other things to consider, here.

All excellent point, CalinCT

You can all argue about attendance statistics all you want to. It's not proof of anything. The St. Louis metro area, which is five counties in two states, is a little over two million people. When the Cardinals can consistently draw around 3 million fans, year in, year out, someplace the size of New York NOT selling out EVERY game should be embarassing for them. The attendance thing is all crap. There are passionate and knowledgable fans all over. Every team has it's rabid fan base.

Here's what BaseballChick and I already know -- If Matt Holliday would have dropped a fly ball in left field for what would have been the third out to win a crucial game in post-season play as a Yankee, Yankees fans would have thrown things; beer cups, seats, farm implements, small animals, etc. He would have needed a presidential style Secret Service escort to get to his hotel room. In a Cardinals uniform, he got a standing ovation during team introductions and at his first plate appearance at home to show him that Cardinals fans know him to be a very good player and a good addition to our team. We would like him back again next year, obscene Scott "The Jackass" Boras contract notwithstanding, and he knows that now. That's just the most recent example of how good Cardinals fans are. There are many such examples.

So while everyone talks meaningless statistics, Cardinals fans everywhere quietly and confidantly know why so many in Major League Baseball call St. Louis "Baseball Heaven".

I'm not sure what kind of attendance the Yankees draw each year. There are over 8M folks living there though, so drawing 3m in attendance shouln't be a problem.
The city of St. Louis has a population of around 365K. They drew over 3m fand again in 2009. I believe they have drawm 3m fanns in each of the past 10 years except 2002 when they drew 2.8M
That's pretty supporting your local team very well I'd say.

wow!!! i agree that the blogs make for more interesting reading than the article. im a bosox fan-have been my entire life. any discussion like this (most loyal, we know more than you etc.) is silly, but its also what makes this sport great! ive been to my fair share of red sox games and ive seen my fair share of idiot sox fans that just take things WAY too far. however, that can be said about pretty much any team out there. i love it that everyone thinks the team they love has the best fans, you're supposed to. however, i will say that i think maybe a few of you could use some yoga or maybe a little less red bull in your lives...relax folks just a thought!

Go Huskers!

I'm a Cubs fan and I'll agree that Cards fans are pretty damn passionate. No doubt there.

But, I will disagree with Baseballchick on Cubs attendance. It's hard to get a ticket at any Cubs weekend games. And most times during the weeks it's not easy either. Also, as a Braves employee, I can tell you that the stadium was most packed for opening weekend, the Red Sox, the Yankees and the Cubs. Most fans here are even annoyed by the amount of Cubs fans that show. Keep in mind, this isn't from someone who's been to Turner Field once or twice, but once or twice a week at some points.

Speaking of attendance, here's the list for this year. Top road attendance is... Your Chicago Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/awayPct

Anyway, Cards fans are good fans. But so are all fans who hate pink baseball apparel.

Also, pretty interesting if you sort by stadium percentages:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homePct
Philly and Boston both put more butts in the seats than there were seats. Followed by the Cubs and, wow, the Mets. Did not see that coming. I like seeing St. Louis above the Yankees. Go NL Central!

First, let me say as a Yankee fan, I am NOT saying we are the "best fans in baseball". I KNOW there are a lot of bandwagon-jumpers out there (please, I have a ton of friends who "coincidentally" became "die-hard Yankee fans" after '96. That being said, I agree with CalinCT - there were a bunch of mitigating factors for lower attendance at Yankee Stadium in the 80's, from Steinbrenner, to the economy to crime.

As for the people posting about Cardinals attendance figures. YES, the Yankees play in a market that dwarfs the St Louis Metro Area. But it's also a market that A) includes another baseball team and B) is the cultural capital of the United States. I'm not saying this in a "my city is better than your city" way (though to be honest I generally make that argument about NYC, because I love it)....I mean that essentially, the Yankees are not competing with just the Mets, but with shopping, museums, restaurants, attractions throughout NYC. I suppose the same could be said for a bunch of cities...but not really.

First, let me say as a Yankee fan, I am NOT saying we are the "best fans in baseball". I KNOW there are a lot of bandwagon-jumpers out there (please, I have a ton of friends who "coincidentally" became "die-hard Yankee fans" after '96. That being said, I agree with CalinCT - there were a bunch of mitigating factors for lower attendance at Yankee Stadium in the 80's, from Steinbrenner, to the economy to crime.

As for the people posting about Cardinals attendance figures. YES, the Yankees play in a market that dwarfs the St Louis Metro Area. But it's also a market that A) includes another baseball team and B) is the cultural capital of the United States. I'm not saying this in a "my city is better than your city" way (though to be honest I generally make that argument about NYC, because I love it)....I mean that essentially, the Yankees are not competing with just the Mets, but with shopping, museums, restaurants, attractions throughout NYC. I suppose the same could be said for a bunch of cities...but not really.

When doing an analysis such as this, the population of the surrounding metropolitan area has to be considered (the population from which the team can draw).

New York has a metropolitan population of almost 19 million. Just for the sake of argument, lets say 1/2 of that population is Mets fans - that leaves 9.5 million fans to draw from for each and every game. With a population like that one should expect a team to easily sell out each and every game, with a line of people waiting for tickets.

City / Population / Ave Attendance
NY 9.5 million / 45918
St. Louis 2.8 million / 41274
Pittsburgh 2.3 million / 19479
Milwaukee 1.5 million / 37499

NY, St. Luois and Milwaukee each were in the neighborhood of playing at 87-88% home capacity. Pittsburgh, near the bottom of the leage at 50%. But when compared to population size (population from which the team can draw) one could argue that Milwaukee easily did better than the other teams - they had 2.5% of the population show up at any given game. The Yankees? .48%. Pittsburgh? .84%. (I left Boston and Philly out because they sold out every (most?) games and did not have room to put additional fans in seats, playing to 101 and 102% average capacity - therefore the stats would be invalid in this context)

Using the stats in this manner could show that of those 4 teams, the Yankees actually have the worst fan-base - even behind the Pirates! But what do those numbers actually prove? Just that any story like this can be manipulated depending on how the numbers are used. Statistics - lying with numbers!

"Best?" Ridiculous assertion by a writer who is probably based in NYC. The NY Yankees are baseball's winningest team in the country's biggest market. There may be more of them because of that. But "best?" Give me a break!

Greg: Do you believe NYC is the only city with shopping, restaurants and attractions. New Yorkers have a bloated sense of themselves

I'm so glad you wrote this, Craig!
-
I'm totally on board with you using a performance/attendance comparison to help add some quantity and validation to claims made.
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I won't enter into the fray of what really qualifies a fanbase as "the best," but any number you want to throw out there just doesn't support the Yankees as being it.
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On top of that, many people seem to put a lot of stock into this "passion" thing. They discount that teams like the Dodgers have a reputation for lackadaisical support. All I have to say is this: Support can be best measured by how many people you get to spend money on their team. And as the numbers bear out that teams like the Dodgers elicit the type of wallet support in lean times (both figuratively and literally) that the Yankees could only dream of.
-
Let's also keep in mind that many historians agree that the Brooklyn Dodgers had one of the most devoted fanbases in the game. That, combined with their attendance figures during that period, could also boost the Dodgers as "the best" fanbase.
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Oh... and the Yankees were the only team in town for a bit over a decade (after the Giants and Dodgers moved west; before the Mets were organized). You'd think that their attendance would've gone through the roof. Nope.

I'm surprised Craig didnt blame Jeter for these horrible attendence woes. All of Jeter's lies and thievery are probably to blame.

You spoiled my next post, Joe!

No one has yet mentioned the players. How often do you hear about the players being happy to be a part of the team because of the fans? You hear Cardinals players mention it. You hear it from new players about current players telling them how great it is to be in STL and once they get there, they understand.

I'm jealous of anyone who gets paid to watch baseball. My dream job would be as a statistician for a MLB team.

I'm jealous of anyone who gets paid to watch baseball. My dream job would be as a statistician for a MLB team.

Good God, it's awesome. Hopefully I'll be getting a bump up in position and my office will actually be Turner Field next year. I feel spoiled.

Do you mind me asking what do you do there? Who do you have to know to get hired?

Just so everyone knows, the red sox have sold out EVERY GAME since the end of 2003. They only have ~43000 seats, so they have less attendance. But they hold the record for sellouts, excluding the NBA. PLUS, we supported them for 86 years. Anyone who says that red sox fans are bad fans should think again. Yankees fans are super similar to Red sox fans, its just that they naturally dislike each other since they're rivals. BTW, red sox fans have the highest away game attendance :)

Actually i agree with this somewhat, as a life long Yankee fan i remember when they hit bottom in 1989\90 and they were not selling out. And i think what happens here is when the Yanks are good they get a lot of bandwagon fans just like any other sucessful team. And if they are not doing well those fans jump off and join whoever is the latest hot team and thats not a knock on the Yanks its just a fact of sports. However with that said one thing we learned today about craig here and thats he's a lawyer and i must say "why am i not surprised?" So very fitting....

As a RedSox fan, I CAN say that I respect the Yankees players(in public, maybe not:)but derek jeter and jorge posada and robinson cano are good players, like youk, ellsbury and bay. I think fans stick to teams because they like certain players, or maybe it is the fact that Bos/NYY are winning teams. I guess it depends on the fans^^. Oh, and no matter what, i root for the AL in the WS, so if the yankees get there, good luck :)

The Cardinals have, if not the best, some of the best baseball fans. We draw 3 million plus every year, win or lose. We're a much smaller market than New York. I've been to Yankees games in New York and they don't come close. Sorry.

Well, the Mets entered the major leagues in 1962. From 1962 - 1991, or thirty seasons together, the Mets outdrew the Yankees in 20 of those 30 seasons.

Right now it's just grassroots marketing. On and off campus. I got lucky and found a posting online looking for part-time work (I just moved to Atlanta). Every team will post positions online. They liked what they saw on my resume I guess and called me.

But to get a full time position at the big league level, you need prior experience working for a minor league club or working part-time for a big league club. Hopefully I'm able to turn this into full time as my boss is leaving.

Also, the baseball winter meetings are a great way to network and interview for some positions. I've heard it's helpful if you can setup some meetings beforehand. The meetings are in Indianapolis this year and I am going whether I have a full-time job or not.

Well, the Mets entered the major leagues in 1962. From 1962 - 1991, or thirty seasons together, the Mets outdrew the Yankees in 20 of those 30 seasons.

Though it was a good attempt to come up with something, attendance at a stadium is not a measure of the best fans. I'm not sure anything is.You certainly have generated a lot of interesting comments, especially from yankee bashers. I particularly like the one that said road attendance is as much a sign that peple want to see the players, not the team. Or the one that argues the fan base for boston and st.louis is only from 559K and 365K as though no one outside the city boundaries counts. Equally desperate is the attempt to calculate the percentage of total population that attends a game or focusing on knowing why there is an inside fly rule. That said, I love the yankees but would never attend a game in person. I like watching them and all other sports on t.v. with replays and with better commentary on t.v. and the radio then you get at a game. You can't just count attendance at ballparks because for any given game I am sure there are millions more people at home or in a bar or wherever watching than any ballpark attendance reflects, especially for the yankees. Yeah, the yankees get the best prime time slots but that's because stations get viewers when they play and they can sell more advertising. That's the whole point of their business model;not favoritism, and the reason why networks hate it when the yankees don't make it or go far in the post season. Given, the price of attending yankee games I'm sure more is being spent by yankee fans even when thy don't have the attendance record than almost any other team. When you take into account road draw, tv, competing activities and attendance I would say the yankees probably have the broadest fan base. But that doesn't mean yankee fans are the best fans anymore than not setting the attendance record every year means they are not good, die hard fans. So as for the point in the article, we need another way to measure or we should leave it at great fans of different teams will have to agree to disagree.

If St. Louis baseball fans are so great and "die-hard" why aren't the Browns still in St. Louis?

Great way to attract interest in an article

The only hook missing to stimulate response and interest was the failure to mention Sarah Palin

Almost any major league team "must" say "you're the BEST fans". I've seen it in Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago (Cubs). There's really no #1 when it comes to who's the best. That's like saying "If you're a Yankee", no one else matters!

As far as the Yankees are concerned, many fans do agree on this (excluding New Yorkers who root for those "Damn Yankees"):
The Yankee owner, the Steinbrenner's and now his son just has a lot of cash! Plenty to "buy" supposed players that they think will get them another championship. This has been ongoing for as long as I know. Is this fair? In other words, just how many owners today can do this? Not many, dear fans!
Also, with so much cash, the Yankees can buy almost anyone! And yes, even there are years where their purchases didn't pan out, but again, they DO and have more cash than anyone realizes.
They even pay the MLB fines for going over the supposed "ceiling". Is this fair? Hardly. Until YOU, the fans complain and I mean complain to the rulers of the MLB, don't complain why YOUR team fails to get players that could win them a division, pennant and perhaps a World Series ring, and all the hoopla that goes along with it!
Until then, just go on hopes, over and over again. Case in point: The Chicago Cubs! NOTE: This place gets sold out for most games each year, and where has it got them? No place! Simply: This team doesn't have a Steinbrenner!

Best is at best a nebulous term. At worst it is useless.
The best behaved fans I have ever seen: St Louis
The worst behaved fans I have ever seen: TIE Philly and Detroit
The most knowledgeable: St Louis followed by the Yankee fans.
Least knowledgeable: Pirate and Marlins fans
The most dedicated: CUBS fans, followed by the Red Sox fans
Least dedicated: Expos and now the Nationals
The Red Sox fans booed Ted Williams for YEARS, Yankee Fans Booed Mantle.
Phillies Fans booed Mike Schmidt
Best is not an easily quantified or definable term and doing it based on
attendance is well frankly, stupid. Why? Because of the MANY factors
that play in to attendance: Quality of the team, quality of the stadium,
ticket prices, weather, marketing, quality of the teams they play, other
options (a competing team, competing sports, etc.) and so on and so on.
Attendance is a measure of popularity in a particular time frame, not
the quality of the fan base. Red Sox and Cubs sell out their little
ball parks and get in the top few in attendance, Yankee's and Dodger do
not sell out their LARGE parks and get in the top few in attendance.
I am a NY'er and The Bronx was dangerous in the 70's, 80's, and early
90's. It is MUCH better now

Thats probably because fenway holds what? 32K? Its a little bandbox for crying out loud!

Yes the Browns left St. Louis

But, didn't New York lose both the Giants AND the Dodgers?

Must be great fans then.

Being a Yankee fan, one that went to those poorly attended games in the 80's, I would not agree with the statement that Yankee fans are the "best" fans. We boo our own team when it does bad, and even when they are doing good sometimes. In terms of knowledge though, we do tend to know a lot of baseball stuff, considering that our team or its players are a large part of baseball history.
But saying that it's easy to fill up a NYC stadium when there are 9 professional sports teams in the area (including the NJ teams, which are half an hour away or less), several minor league baseball teams, tons of college teams, not to mention a GAZILLION things going on in NYC, the surrounding boroughs, and outlying counties, is asinine at best, and shows a complete lack of knowledge of the area. Its not hard to support a team when there is NOTHING ELSE to support or even do in that particular town/city.
And the fact that a good part of this population that people are bringing up can't even afford to get in the Stadium, except in the bleachers or nosebleed grandstands (which is where I sat for 25 games this year) it's actually pretty amazing that Yankee Stadium was as filled as it was this year.

Yankmee fans, like their team and the team's owner, SUCK!!! Mike Lupica must want access to the after-game buffet. What a suckup. How do you cover a team and be anywhere near objective with this sort of brown-nosing? Lupica ought to sue his journalism school for malpractice!

The best fans stand toward the end of the game for each team, screaming their heads off. No one team has that corner of the market. The Yankee fans messed up autographing and picture-taking from the close-in field level seats at Angel Stadium - it's still banned and all visiting teams are punished for the Yankee fans' poor behavior. This is straight from the usher.

Trying to decide which team has the best fan base is an exercise in futility. But deciding that Lupica is a self-righteous douchebag is easy.

THough anecdotal, i continue to hear about baseball front office guys growing up sox fans. And if you were to ask any front office personnel and writers which franchise is the best right now, you will hear Red Sox more often than not.
SoSH message board members picking up on pitchers tipping...
Boston fans seem to be very educated and loyal

LOL what happend to the red little gay birdies!!! LOL GO CUBBIES GO!!!!

WOW, did you have to consult a dictionary for all those big words?

Craig, you're a clown... have you ever written a positive blog about the Yankees? .... and maybe you can tell me, what losing team draws huge crowds and why do expect NYer's to be any different from any other fans? If I could AFFORD to go to more games, I would... get it?

THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND NEW YORK,
GOD IS FROM NEW YORK AND HE IS A YANKEE FAN TOO.......

I AGREE WITH EVERYONE HERE, THE PIRATES ARE THE BEST TEAM ;-)

It's the PASSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS INFO IS RUBBISH AND A GOOD WASTE OF PAPER SO DON'T PRINT THIS
AND USHER DOES NOT LIKE SPORTS HE IS GAY AND INTO DESIGNING AND
DECORATING.THIS GUY IS A PADRE FAN SO THAT TELLS YOU HOW SMART HE
IS.

ADIOS

I think you forgot to turn off your caps lock.

I'm a huge Yank fan, been die hard since the mid 70s and i have to say that 'best fans' is a tricky read. I'd have to say that Yanks fans are great, but i'm just not sure if they are the 'best'. I guess it determines what you mean by 'best'.

I was in Anaheim the other day for Game 5 and the Yankee fans around me were loud and passionate. They were rooting like the world was ending tomorrow. You could see in their eyes that they desperately wanted to win. They were more intense than the Angels fans despite being the road team.

Yanks fans are great no doubt,but you would really have to define 'best' and what it actually means.

Couldn't agree with you more, but I will add that the Cubs teams and their fans have taken loyalty to a new level, a sublevel. If a team is consistently bad (let's see, if measuring a team's success level is based on the number of World Series crowns, and IT appears to be), then we'd have to say that Cubs fans are simply not following along.

A team goes on a losing streak for 5 or 10 years, you can understand a general decline in season tickets sales and press attention, but when the drought is over 100 years long, that's fan loyalty? That's fan stupidity. It's just a sport, true, and it shouldn't be worth more space than I'm giving it right here, but Cubs fans, WAKE UP. The jinx is real and you're the ones perpetuating it. You take idolatry to a new high. The teams haven't accomplished IT! (See paragraph one.)

Ignore them and they might revive on their own. (Ooo, secret's out of the bag.)

But, hey, I'm a Cards fan. And even though they (the Cards) blew it in the first round of playoffs, at least they were there (well, somewhat there). And, Cubs fans, the 2006 Cardinals, not expected to compete, won it all because no one really expected them to do anything. Understand what I mean by ignore them (national press), and they might just succeed. Fans and sports writers, quit putting so much pressure on these poor guys. (I mean, they're only making millions of dollars. Ask Milton Bradley what I mean by that.)

And in the meantime, I'll stick with the Cards. Thanks, Tony, for re-signing, and I'll give at least a preliminary thumbs up on Mark Maguire as the new hitting coach. Just keep it simple, Mark, as Pete Rose said, "See the ball, hit the ball ". With power. (Just don't bet on the outcomes.) (and, Mark, I hope you do better than Pete Rose in his quest for acceptance into the Hall of Fame--another subject) Either tell the truth at the beginning and suffer the initial wave of finger-wagging, OR don't tell and instead have great success as a hitting coach. Either way, it all goes away. Go, Cards.

As a Yankee fan I have to say that I think St. Louis fans are probably the best. And I agree with hblogsdon about Cubs fans. They're more of a Yuppie "thing to do" than a fan base. How many times have I seen the 7th inning stretch, the Cubs losing 11-0, and the fans all smiling and singing Take Me Out To The Ballgame. They're on another planet. Idiots.

The Yankee fans as the best? Get real...they are nothing more than arrogant boobs..the things they say make it sound like they really believe their team is on the same playing field as the other teams. Their management, the Stein-brutes, warn players and coaches and managers that "you better get into the playoffs" or you are toast.

Does anyone remember the Billy Martin years? And how they treated Joe Torre? The whole Yankee organization down to the "go fers" that the players have is ridiculous and the NY fans are the dumbest on earth..ever hear one speak? Their collective IQ must be down around single digits. And it speaks volumns that Kate Hudson dates A-Fraud...she is as bad an actress as her mother..it fits...and is there something about the Yankees themselves, that they all look like "horses"...put a pix of Petitte, next to Texeira and Damon and they all look like horses...is that what it takes to be a Yankee?

I'm a Red Sox fan, and as such my views are entirely biased.

That being said, I can't miss out on an opportunity to mention the fact that I hate Yankees "fans" worse than I actually hate the Yankees (which, by the way, is a lot). Sure, Red Sox fans are obnoxious, rude, arrogant, loud, etc. Yankees fans are way worse. Period. Without debate. Add in the fact that they're front-runners, and it's a laughable discussion when trying to compare Yankees fans with just about any other fanbase.

I can't stomach looking at these guido "tough guys" wearing tracksuits, and doughy morons with the caesar haircut and the gold chains, and the Bernie Williams jersey and the flat brimmed Joba-esque Yankee hat tilted slightly askew yelling "OHHH!!" like they're at the Bada-Bing every 2 seconds. And how about that witty parody they do of the song "YMCA"?? "WHYYY ARE YOU GAY?!" OHHHH!!!! LOLROFLBBQOMG!! You witty dickenses!!! And how about the fact that they play "YMCA" to begin with? And the fat puerto-rican pigs that seem to be in every fifth seat, don't get me started on them. Anyway, Lupica sucks, the Yankees suck, and the whole toilet state of NY sucks. Screw.

After winning the pennant, and losing the World Series to the Cardinals in 1964, the Yankees became the second team in a two-team town. And when you become that second team, the size of your market doesn't matter that much... the amount of ink and TV time you get shrinks compared to the other team, the "on-the-hoof" makret research of seeing whose caps and shirts are seen around town favors the other guys, little kids want to go to the other place and along with other variables (neighborhood, safety, ethnicity of the fans), the parents oblige.
I came of baseball age when the Yankees weren't winning anything, so my core memory of being a young fan (you know, when you lay down your baseball neurons), is of being the kid defending the number two team.
Steinbrenner, an authoritarian millionaire from Cleveland in polyester and a white belt, changed all that... but I had to laugh when he talked about "New Yorkers want this" and "New Yorkers want that" as if he'd know. He ragged on the Bronx, helped create the lunatic asylum/daily psychodrama of the 80s Yankees... and, dammit, spent lots of money (a lot of it wasted) to make the team a perennial contender.
I've been to games in just about every market in the country... mostly in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington. Yes, core fan base Yankee fans do know more about the game than fans in Wrigley Field, where tens of thousands of North Side yuppie zeros sit side by side with people who know what they're looking at.
And Steve, I had to laugh at your rant about fat Puerto Ricans in the seats. You are an idiot, but I digress.
As Yankee seats have moved from merely expensive into the stratosphere, the blacks and Puerto Ricans of the Bronx have been replaced with an almost entirely white crowd from Westchester, Northern New Jersey and Long Island. I am Puerto Rican, grew up going to games with Puerto Rican fans from Manhattan and the Bronx... and at last night's clinching game beyond my family (4 seats at $225 per) didn't see many minority fans at a packed stadium. The people serving the hot dogs and beer on the other hand...

BorincanoDC, I'll let slide your assertion that I'm an idiot, and clarify what I meant about the fat puerto-ricans in the seats at Yankee Stadium. You sound as if you're a reasonable person, regardless of your ethnic heritage, so I'm sorry if I offended you personally. I was generalizing, in order to make a point.

I truthfully don't know for a fact whether or not the people I see standing up at Yankee games with the tilted Joba hats, satin Yankees jackets, jeans that are roughly 5 sizes too big, caesar haircuts and pencil thin mustaches and chin-strap beards are in fact puerto rican, but my eyes tell me they either are, or want to appear to be. I'm from Lowell, MA and we have our share of ethnic diversity, similar to NY although on a smaller scale. I'm not gonna debate your claim that the seats at the new stadium are filled with non-minorities.

You're puerto-rican, yet my gut tells me that you don't fit the description I've presented above. However, I'm also going to assume you're not naive enough to not recognize the type of person I'm describing. Please enlighten me. What's a more apt term?

I'm sure you checked their PR-id cards (we all carry one) so that you know these offensively hatted and bearded fans were not Dominican, Cuban, Mexican, Salvadoran, Panamanian, and so on...

This has been such a problem for us! What with JLo, Marc Anthony, Jimmy Smits, Benicio del Toro, Daddy Yankee, and now Justice Sotomayor, all kind of Latinos are acting Puerto Rican in public. You just can't imagine!

the yankees sold out 2 games in 2009. And that's paid attendance. if you saw what I saw on tv they were not "sold out".

Compare that To Philly that had 73 sell out games this season....... Yankees fans suck, that's the truth. They couldn't even sell more tickets than the Rockies did in the first round of play offs. THE ROCKIES! THE PLAYOFFS!!! WTH??????????

If by "the world" you mean the USA then maybe.

If by "the world" you mean the actual world, not even close.

Heck, I lived in Chicago in the 80's. They gave away tickets to Wrigley in those days. The Cub hysteria you see today is pretty recent....

Your point is immaterial, NYC is about 30 times larger than St. Louis too and that isn't even lumping in NJ. Moreover, most of those other sports barely encroach on baseball season. Your point is worthless....

Because The Cardinals fans are so dedicated that when the Browns were in St. Louis those "die-hard" Cardinals had no use for going to a Browns game. You argued against your own point. Don't know much about baseball do you?

What about Connecticut's Hartford Whalers fans? 12 years after the team moves, we still wear our green and blue... When The Civic Center roof collapsed, all the season ticket holders drove 30 plus miles north to see them play in Springfield, MA.

This, from a team that rarely made the playoffs, and until this decade, not one Stanley Cup (lost in conference finals in 1986 against the eventual Canadians winner, in game 7 in OT !)

You tell me that the Yankee fans would drive 30-40 miles for season ticket holders, they'd just sell them. Or stab someone...

I'M A MARINER AND SEAHAWK FAN. YEAH, WHAT A BANDWAGONER, I KNOW. ONE CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE FAN BASE OF A PITTSBURGH STEELERS OR NEW YORK YANKEES. GO ANYWHERE AND TRY NOT TO SEE THEIR GEAR. AS FAR AS LOYALTY, YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE 65 YEAR WAITING LIST FOR GREEN BAY PACKER SEASON TICKETS. AS FAR AS KNOWLEDGABLE, EVERYBODY HAS THE INTERNET THESE DAYS.

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