It is a travesty that Derek Jeter has never been voted MVP.Even though he is the MVP year in and year out,he is ignored.This is the year he must win it.

I agree with you billy. DJ provides so much more than all the high powered stats. His value to all of baseball, not just NYY, should propel him to victory this year.

Everyone was up in arms over steroids skewing the numbers but as far as I am concerned the unbalanced schedual has just as bad an affect. Not to take away from Mauer but I would like to see his numbers if he played for Baltimore or Tampa and had to play 36 games against the Red Sox and Yankees or even 18 games against the Angels. Or if Jeter and Texiera played their 36 games against the Indians and Royals would their numbers look even better? No instead Mauer played half his games in a weaker division then Jeter or Texiera. As far as I am concerned how can we judge any player in one division against another in a different division if the playing field isn't balanced. It really is a joke, if Mauer wins again it will just confirm my belief that the unbalanced schedual is as bad for the game as steroids were.

I understand the need to create attention, interest, etc., to an article with an eye-catching title. But "Bronx Bullies"? Really? What better, and journalistically cheaper, way to draw attention to your article by propagating the notion of the Yankees as bad guys? Right? What a shame. Listen, as a Yankee fan, of course I advocate Derek Jeter for MVP. I certainly agree with those above stating the case for DJ. But as much as I would love to see Derek win the MVP, I believe Mauer will win the MVP and, to be honest, probably should. The rationale previously stated aside, and I agree that it is totally valid, Joe Mauer should probably win the MVP.

No mention of Ben Zobrist? Triple slash of .297/.405/.543 and 146 OPS+?

Not to take away from Mauer but I would like to see his numbers if he played for Baltimore or Tampa and had to play 36 games against the Red Sox and Yankees or even 18 games against the Angels.

Career vs NY - .287/.391/.435 for an 86 OPS+
Career vs Bos - .303/.406/.461 for a 95 OPS+

Small sample size alerts however
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=mauerjo01&year=Career&t=b

I'm a Yankee fan through and through. That said, Maurer was the best player in baseball last year.

It's one thing for a DH, Outfielder or First Baseman to put up his gawdy numbers, but a catcher? I don't know the stats, but he probably had the best season of any catcher EVER.

Give him the award.

First, if you are going to compare players, you have to compare the same stats. You looked up the stats on all players; you should have been able to look up the SAME stats. For that, you get an F.
Second, an important stat to have would be game winning offense or game saving defense. I realize this is probably more difficult to find than steals or OPS, but I bet it is out there.
Compare apples to apples, and we can chime in on whether the "Bronx Bullies" (Whatever that means) will prevail over poor Joe Mauer, who must have had a stellar season playing The Yankees - oh wait,did they beat them more than once this season? Not sure.

Ditto, Ditto.

Come on, bharks. Two Yankees happen to have solid enough years to be thrown into consideration for the MVP and they have to be "bullies." Would be too simple to recognize what they did for what it was -- two very good performances by two very good players?

Cheap. Real cheap.

And lazy.

What's Teixeir's OPS? How many stolen bases did Mauer have? How many runs did Cabrera score?

Take note, NBC, this blogging stuff is killing sports writing.

People absolutely KILL ME!!! How does Jeter deserve MVP? He has a Measley 66 RBI's!!! Half of what an MVP should have!! RBI's win games, I say Tex has the clear advantage here, one of the reasons Jeter has 107 runs is because Tex was batting after he blooped his way onto base. You People in love with Jeter need to get your eyes checked, Yes he's one of the best in the AL, but that's all he ever was, and ever will be. "One of the best" There has been and always will be a better player to take that honor before Jeter does. Face it, he'll get his honor when he's inducted into the HOF, and rightfully so.

bh0673,
You're talking about if Jeter/Teixeira played in the weaker AL central and what it would do to their stats. I'm sure their numbers would be as good, or better.
But what if Mauer was inserted into the Yankees lineup? What would that do to his stats? With the company hitting around him, he would see even more pitches to hit than he does in MN. He would probably score more runs, drive in more runs, and have an even higher OBP.
So, you're right that it probably is inaccurate to compare stats across divisions, but if you're going to bring up the situation about Yankees players dominating the AL Central, it's only fair think about Mauer being placed into that packed lineup where there are many, many more chances for offensive success than in MN.

That said, Maurer was the best player in baseball last year.

It's one thing for a DH, Outfielder or First Baseman to put up his gawdy numbers, but a catcher? I don't know the stats, but he probably had the best season of any catcher EVER.

Piazza's 1997 season was better, but not by much. .362/.431/.638 with a 185 OPS+ vs Mauer's .365/.444/.587. However, Mauer is actually a good defender whereas Piazza was terrible.

People absolutely KILL ME!!! How does Jeter deserve MVP? He has a Measley 66 RBI's!!! Half of what an MVP should have!! RBI's win games, I say Tex has the clear advantage here, one of the reasons Jeter has 107 runs is because Tex was batting after he blooped his way onto base. You People in love with Jeter need to get your eyes checked, Yes he's one of the best in the AL, but that's all he ever was, and ever will be. "One of the best" There has been and always will be a better player to take that honor before Jeter does. Face it, he'll get his honor when he's inducted into the HOF, and rightfully so.

Come on, you're kidding with the RBI number right? RBI are a function of the rest of the team, not a batter's hitting acumen. If no one is on base for a hitter, he has to hit a HR every time to get a RBI.

As for Jeter never being the best, he should have won in '06 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.shtml#ALmvp).

Career vs NY - .287/.391/.435 for an 86 OPS+
Career vs Bos - .303/.406/.461 for a 95 OPS+

Those aren't OPS+ numbers, those at tOPS+ numbers. tOPS compares a player to himself, so everyone has an overall tOPS of 100. Meaning Mauer has been slightly worse against those two than other opponents, but still pretty damn spiffy. He's been in the same area against the White Sox (tOPS of 85) and Oakland (88), and way worse against the Blue Jays (tOPS+ of 48). He's worse against better pitching staffs, in other words...no shock there.

And Mauer will of course win the MVP. After they made the playoffs, any last voters lost all arguments, however tenuous, against him.

Mark Teixeira lead the league in homers and RBI's. That's 2 out of 3 for the triple crown. Mauer's a great player but he's not the MVP. But he'll win because of the usual anti Yankee backlash from the writers. It's time to give the voting to the players and take it away from the know nothing writers who always have an agenda. Jeter in 2006, should have beaten Justin Morneau for MVP. Jeets stats were better. One writer that year put him 6th or 7th on his ballot just to be sure he didn't have more total points than Morneau.

CotPO: That's not "OPS+," that's "tOPS+." It's how he's done against those teams compared to his norm, not compared to league average. Obviously .287/.391/.435 is better than 86% of an average player.

"Bronx Bullies" seems entirely appropriate to me -- two very good players who, if they played on any other team, wouldn't even be in the discussion against a clear-cut choice like Mauer. It's kind of amazing that people are trying to argue this.

As a Yankees fan, I would be happy (obviously) if 'Jeets' got the MVP. If I recall correctly, the original purpose of the MVP was to be awarded to 'that player most valuable to HIS team'. While I consided Jeets to be extremely valuable to the Yankees, and a great ambassador for MLB in general, I would not be upset if Mauer received the award. For a catcher to put up the numbers he does on a consistent basis is downright unbelievable. In fact, are his career numbers to date better than Johnny Bench's?

Now, to Mr. Harkins. The expression 'Bronx Bullies' was inappropriate and uncalled for. I do not consider Jeets and Tex 'bullies'. IMO, a very poor derivation of 'Bronx Bombers'.

bh0673,

2009 ERA by team -

White Sox - 4.16
Tigers - 4.34
Rays - 4.35
Red Sox - 4.36
Blue Jays - 4.47
Royals - 4.83
Indians - 5.07
Orioles - 5.16

The average AL East ERA (non-Yankee) is ~4.59. The average AL Central ERA (non-Twin) is ~4.60. So why don't you sit down and let the adults talk for a while.

First off, it has to be acknowledged that Mauer missed a month. Even with that understood, I think it's clear that he is the MVP. He led in all three of the slash stats. He hit home runs at a faster pace than Teixeira (the difference in total homers due to injury and the demands of his position). And he plays a more physically demanding defensive position.

Mauer had one of the best seasons by a catcher of all-time. He had an 8.2 WAR, good for third in MLB, and it probably would have been higher if WAR could account for his Gold Glove-caliber fielding behind the plate. Teixeira's 5.1 WAR was good for sixth...among first baseman. He wasn't even the best first baseman in the AL. Both Cabrera and Youkilis had higher WARs than Tex. Jeter's WAR (7.4) was also very good, but was not as good as Mauer's and was not as statistically anomalous as Mauer's. Jeter's WAR was .1 higher than the next best SS (Hanley Ramirez) and 54% higher than the next best AL SS (Jason Bartlett). Mauer's WAR was 67% higher than the next best catcher (Victor Martinez). Mauer was historically good, and he should be recognized for that achievement.

Bronx bombers yes. Bronx bullies - no. I'm not a Yankees fan nor a MN fan. However, my vote goes with Mauer. He did contribute the most to his team whereas the Yankees had a whole host of players that could be chosen for that. Personally, I think A-Rod should be the MVP.

@Bill@TDS and @aweb, my fault guys, was doing a quick glance between his page and jeter's for another question, and didn't pay enough attention to the column I was reading. Thanks for pointing it out.

now where's the damn edit button around here...

O.K. t-will, now your showing your ignorance. If you don't think Tex is the best fielding first baseman, stop talking. He's the best I've seen since Keith Hernandez. Do you actually watch the games or just look at stats for fantasy baseball? And if you want to use projected stats because of injury than Arod should win the MVP. He missed 40 games and had 30/100 but injury is a part of who should win.

The guy is a CATCHER..... enuff said. It's not even close.

You are correct Mauer's numbers could have been better if he was playing in NY but then again you could better compare him to Texiera and Jeter since they faced the same pitchers and played the same teams all together. I just think with the unbalanced schedual it can skew the numbers and really isn't a fair assumption of value and contribution. I am not knocking Mauer but I am knocking a system that doesn't force everyone to play on an even playing field but does judge them as if they did. Next year will be interesting to see if playing outside in the cold at Target field in the early spring and late fall and in the heat in the summer will have an impact. No matter what I would still feel the MVP would have more validity if the schedual was balanced.

Jeter is a leadoff man! That automatically takes away one at bat a game where he can get an RBI (unless he homers) and then the rest of the game he has the 8 & 9 hitters batting before him. Don't you think this might have something to do with having as many RBI's he did?

Not once did I say that Tex is not a good fielding first baseman. What I said is that Mauer does not get credit toward his WAR for his fielding, because WAR uses UZR for its fielding component, and there is no UZR for catchers. Now, I will add that UZR is a notoriously sketchy statistic when it comes to analyzing first baseman, so Tex's -3.7 rating may not accurately reflect his defensive value. But even if you turn him into the best fielding 1B, he still only ends up with a 6.0 WAR, good for fourth in MLB and first (barely) in the AL.
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I also did not use projected stats. I used ratio stats. In fact, WAR is a counting stat, so the fact that Mauer was worth three more wins than Tex this season despite missing month is all the more impressive.

What has Jeter done in the past, or Tex for that matter to be considered a bully?

One other thing about some stats. If you believe blindly in statistics, then you believe that going to strip clubs will make you middle aged and bald.

Couldn't agree with you more AJ Gallo......typical media hype painting the Yankees as the bad guys. Mauer probably will win MVP if only because the sports writers that vote are in love with anyone that competes against Yankees. That's fine...when he's hoisting his MVP plaque, the Yanks will be selecting the style rings they will be receiving.

Why don't people realize that it takes more than money to get a championship? There are so many factors: injuries, team chemistry, work ethic.....that come into play. In the past 20 yrs, the NFL - the league everyone uses as an example of parity - has had 13 different champions...... MLB has had 14...........

....and when are people going to stop calling the twin cities area a "small market".......?

Just curious. Why are you using the WAR stat. I know it's harder to replace a great catcher than a great first baseman. But Martinez I think you said had the second best WAR for catchers and he's a liability behind the plate. That's why I think the Red Sox will win the Mauer sweepstakes. Move V. Martinez to first & Yuke back to 3rd.

First for the posters, MVP is not based on stats alone. If it was there would be a formula you could plug the stats in to for each candidate to tell you a definitive MVP.

Second for the 'author' of this article (and I use that term loosely), please explain how Jeter and Teixeira are considered bullies?

Well, let's look at other leadoff men. Such as Jimmy Rollins. He has 77 RBI's with .250 avg. RBI's win games. End of story. Yes getting on base is part of it, but stranded runners happen more often than not unless you have someone like Tex to drive them in. Jeter only drove in 66 runs, that's weak ,so weak the author left it out of his post! If he should have gotten it it would have been in 2006 imo with nearly 100 RBI's, this season it would be a gross travesty to see Jeter get it.

You missed the Brewers who the Twins played twice and Astros who were both sub .500 teams, the Pirates who were a sub .400 team, the Cubs and Cardinals. As well as the Phillies, Braves and Mets who the Yankees played twice before the Mets totally fell apart and Marlins and Nationals (ok the Nationals and the Pirates cancel each other out). Also as far as Mauer missing a month you could argue Texiera was pitched around until A-Rod came back as well. My point still is if players don't face an equal opponent the same number of times as other players can we really compare them?

Bernie,

I'm using WAR because it is a statistic that allows us to better compare players who play different positions. Looking at normal statistics can be deceiving. For example, hitting .300 with 30 homers and 100 RBI would be considered a good season, but when it comes from a catcher, it is much more valuable because catchers don't hit .300/30/100. Mauer was close this year at .395/28/96, but four different first basemen hit that mark this year, five if you add in Prince Fielder's .299 average. Thus, a catcher who hits .300/30/100 is more valuable than a first baseman who hits .300/30/100 because it is significantly easier to find the latter than the former.
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I also use WAR because it is a counting statistic. If I relied solely on OPS or other average statistics, somebody could make the argument that, because Mauer missed a month, his average statistics are less valuable. Using a cumulative statistics shows that, despite missing April, Mauer was still able to accumulate more wins above replacement level; meaning that he did more than Tex or Jeter in less time.
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As far as Martinez's defense is concerned, I did comment that WAR does not take catchers' defense into account and his offense was very good for a catcher.
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As far as basing MVP only on stats (and this wasn't your comment), I believe statistics should be the principal measure for the MVP because they are an objective measure of value. Looking at "intangibles" or anything else is fine, but basing your decision principally on subjective measures devalues the award. Just look at the Heisman. Nobody thinks the Heisman winner is actually the best player in the country. The award just goes to the best QB or the best RB on one of the best teams.

So your telling me the guy thats won 3 or last 4 batting crowns, having his best year, shouldn't win the MVP? AND hes a catcher!! LOL. Jeter is a hall of fame leader, no doubt. However his stats didn't match his leadership. If he didn't have the supporting cast you wouldn't see the high number of runs at all. Mauer means more to the Twins leadership wise AND put up the numbers. As for the arguement of weak schedual.....the AL Cy Young winner was from that "weak" pitching division.

Just curious. Why are you using the WAR stat. I know it's harder to replace a great catcher than a great first baseman. But Martinez I think you said had the second best WAR for catchers and he's a liability behind the plate. That's why I think the Red Sox will win the Mauer sweepstakes. Move V. Martinez to first & Yuke back to 3rd.

IIRC WAR is a counting stat, so Martinez benefits from playing in 155 games compared to Posada only playing 111. It's just another benefit to show how good Mauer is, that he's second in WAR amongst AL Batters while missing all that time.

@jonny5

Well, let's look at other leadoff men. Such as Jimmy Rollins. He has 77 RBI's with .250 avg. RBI's win games. End of story.

Just stop with the RBI's. As I mentioned in the other thread you posted this, RBI's are a function of the team, not the individual player. If 1/10 times David Eckstein came to bat, he had the bases loaded so his slow rolling single through the infield brought home two runs, he'd have a ridiculously inflated RBI total. But striking out in those other 9 at bats would mean the meaningful stats are terrible, but RBI #'s are inflated.

And oh yeah, wOBA/WAR/UZ/150
JRoll - .316/2.4/2.9
Jeter - .390/7.4/8.4

Rollins was no where close to Jeter this year, in any facet of the game.

You are vastly overstating the difference in quality between pitching staffs, on average. The average ERA for the Yankees' interleague opponents was 4.33 (counting the Mets twice). The average ERA for the Twins' interleague opponents was 4.39 (counting the Brewers twice). That .06 difference is roughly equivalent to one run every 17 games. So in the entirety of interleague play last season (18 games), the Twins' opponents allowed about one more run than did the Yankees' opponents.
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As far as Teixeira being pitched around, yes, he was pitched around, just as Mauer was during Sept. when Morneau was injured.
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Unfortunately, there is no statistic that I know of that provides detailed statistics on opponent pitching, but the fact is that you are vastly overstating the difference between team's schedules, at least as far as ERA is concerned. Unless you're facing the Nationals, Pirates, Indians, and Orioles 19 times each, there is unlikely to be a statistically significant difference between the quality of pitching a batter faces. And I would suggest that you drop that line of thinking given that I have provided you with evidence that, at least this year, there was NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE, between the pitching staffs that the Yankees and Twins faced, at least based on the aggregate.

The award won't even be close. Joey Mauer in a landslide.
I'm a true-blue Yankee fan, but there isn't a Bronx Slugger
that had a better year than Mauer.
That being said, he'd make a great Yankee :>)

I don't get what your talking about comparing Rollins to Jeter.?? So your saying its more productive to hit .250 and drive in 100+ runs than to hit .334 and drive in 66 as a leadoff man? Your also implying that the only person that is productive is a power hitter that smashes the ball out of the park. Look at Ichiro, he only had 46 RBI's. Is he also worthless? As for 2006 He wasn't a leadoff man, hence he actually had a chance to drive someone in. If you are actually trying to imply Jeter can't pull through when it's needed your out of your mind and haven't watched any yankee games. Take a look at the guys postseason stats. THE ONES THAT MATTER. 138 games, 99 runs, 175 hits, 20 hr, 55 rbi's, .313 avg, .383 obp. He shines when many people crumble. I do agree however though that for this single season award Mauer does deserve it.

Rollins had 77 rbis. subtract his home runs from that and add in his runs scored. he has 156, jeter has 155 wow, what a difference, case not closed. The runs you generate win games. Both are great players, ones on the upswing, one on the down but right now for one year, I'd take Jeter.

I agree. Mauer will win and probably deservedly so but Tex had a great year. Most years if you lead 2 out of 3 on the triple crown will win mvp but it's still fun to argue.

Yes, Tex did have a monster year...one of the main reasons the Bombers won it all, however, the voters (at least in recent years), tend to look away from New York and focus their energy on new blood. Joe Mauer was THE reason the Twins made the playoffs.
I would look for Mark to finish second in the voting....a distant second.

YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM HE'S OURS AND IS WAY TO COOL TO BE A YANKEE!!!

Money talks
Coolness walks :>)

Derek Jeter just called from St.Barts, HE IS HAVING A EXCITING AND WONDERFUL TIME WITH THE WORLD SERIES TROPHY AND MINKA KELLY.

HE IS ALREADY THE MOST VALUABLE - PLAYA.............HOLLA AT YA BOY

THE YANKEES ARE CHAMPIONS OF BASEBALL................AGAIN!!!!!

WELL HE WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING IF HE LISTENS TO YOU............

DUDE, WHAT SIZE RING DO YOU WHERE, YOU WILL LQQK Cool IN PINSTRIPES

IT AMAZES ME THAT FANS CAN GET CRAzY ABOUT INDIVIDUAL AWARDS AND THEN HATE ON THE YANKEES WHEN WE WIN THE 27TH WORLD SERIES TROPHY..
LOSERS........

And it's official: 27 of 28 first-place votes go to JOE MAUER.

Derek Jeter - every year's MVP? Only if MVP stands for Most overValued Player. (Okay, that's overstating it, at least this year. But most years, that's an accurate assesment)

Face facts, Yankees fans. Derek may be a classy guy (on the field, at least), and a solid contributor. He may even have MVP-worthy seasons (even if he doesn't have the MOST valuable season). But the MVP award isn't a lifetime achievement award, and shouldn't be.

Joe Mauer is a deserving MVP this year. Jeter's season - solid as it was - ranks about third or fourth at best

Stupid title for this article. "Bronx bullies" implies Jeter and Teixeira are bad guys and thugs which from a distance I believe to be far from the truth. Jeter proves how valuable he is to the team year in and year out. If you believe Grienke was chosen because voters overlooked his lack of wins, then you have to look passed Teixeira's good looking stats and weigh in the games he won for the Yanks with his marvelous defense. I have always been someone who appreciated ballplayers for their hitting stats, but this year was completely amazed by what he did with the glove. I'd like to see Jeter win for all the great years he provided, BUT (and this is a big but!) Teixeira deserves it for being the complete package.

You are absolutely right!

Is there still a Player of the Year award? I think there was a Hicock Belt at one time given for the award. As for MVP, how can it really be determined who is "most valuable" to his team?

Who's the ahole that didn't vote for him :-)

Thank you for helping prove my point. Jeter deserves an Mvp award a little more than Rollins does, and Rollins is not on the list, nor should he be.

Mauer Is the clear choice imo. And I'd take Tex as #2.

Simmer down Mike. Just saying being a leadoff man isn't a handicap. If Jeter deserved an MVP his RBI total would be higher, that's all I'm saying. You don't need to crush the ball out of the park to get RBI's, it's all about hitting when the pressure is on to drive in runs. Seriously how could a guy get the MVP with 66 rbi's? That would be a slap to former mvp's imo. It's paltry. His avg. is awesome though but runs scored is where the value is in a player besides defense. And Jeter is no Phenom at S.S.

"And Jeter is no Phenom at S.S." Not true. His fielding stats @ SS were among the best in the league this year.