Damon's double steal was cool, but it was not a first, and was not "the greatest"

My hyperbole this morning aside, it seems that Johnny Damon's double steal as a result of the overshift is not a first.  From reader Jonathan Fellows:

Willie Mays on September 30, 1971 -- a game the Giants had to win to avoid a playoff -- stole 2nd and 3rd on the same pitch.  Willie McCovey was up and the Padres were playing the shift.  The 3rd baseman covered second on the steal and Mays got up and took off for third after beating the throw to second.

That was this game here. It's hard to tell all of the nuances from the box score of course, but it appears to be what happened. UPDATE: Many readers recall Brandon Phillips doing this for the Reds a couple of years ago while the shift was on for either Dunn or Griffey. UPDATE #2: Another reader notes that Jeter apparently did it on opening day 2003, in the play in which he separated his shoulder running into catcher Rod Barajas. My memory of that was that there was an error or something that allowed Jeter to advance, but I haven't had time to check it this morning. 

And while we're still on the subject, let's be 100% clear about something:  Damon's play was very, very cool. It was totally exciting. It was probably a game changer inasmuch as others have noted in the comments today, it very well may have led to Lidge not wanting to throw his best pitch -- hard slider -- to A-Rod for fear of uncorking a wild pitch.

But it was not -- as some Yankees boosters have suggested in comments, in emails to me, and around the blogosphere this morning -- "one of the greatest moments in World Series history."  I can think of a half dozen -- Joe Carter in 1993, Jack Morris in 1991, Reggie in 1977, Fisk in 1975, Mazeroski in 1960 and Larsen in 1956 -- just off the top of my head. There are no doubt many others.

Uniqueness and coolness does not necessarily make for greatness.  I was totally stoked by Damon's play, and I'm sure Yankees fans were too.  Hopefully, however, it can just be appreciated for what it is, rather than have it be pitted against truly "great" moments. Because to do so (a) diminishes those great moments by forcing them to endure a comparison that is beneath them; and (b) actually diminishes Damon's play, because it makes it suffer by comparison. 

Pretty sure that it was Ken Huckaby, not Rod Barajas, who Jeter ran into in 2003.

It was Huckaby. And the Jeter play was a Giambi groundout to Halladay, who threw to first and Jeter tried to go 1st to 3rd on the play. See the top of the 3rd inning here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR200303310.shtml

Jose Reyes once tried to do this (and failed) but the overshift wasn't on. If I recalled correctly, the 3B was pulled in on a bunt attempt and Reyes thought he called him flatfooted and tried to beat him to the bag; he didn't.

Craig: Here's the boxscore from Phillips' feat. Check out the 4th inning.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/WAS/WAS200708010.shtml

Willie Mays play was great but it was not the same as Damons if you saw it 1st hand--not even close

Damons was done on the Grandest of stages which on my list puts him atop WIllie Mays who could have hit a HR in the playoff game had they got there

Here's Retrosheet:

YANKEES 3RD: Soriano flied to right; Jeter walked; Giambi hit
into a double play (pitcher to first) [Jeter out at third (first
to catcher)]; Jeter tried to go from 1B to 3B when it was
left uncovered; catcher Huckaby ran to 3B to cover and when he
fell his shinguard drove into Jeter's shoulder; after a 12
minute delay, Jeter taken to hospital with separated shoulderm
on DL for 6 weeks; 0 R, 0 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Yankees 1, Blue
Jays 0.

Oops, apologies for that then Craig. I remembered a similar situation, checked b-ref for a year when Jeter missed a bunch of time, but didn't dig much more into it.

OK fellow baseball addicts, after Johnny D's hard fought winning at bat and ballsey steal of 2nd [with 2 outs] and total heads up taking of 3rd, shows me that we were watching a game changer, a World Series take away any Phillies momemtum game changer. Oh well,
Just another nail in the coffin for the Red Sox nation and Phillies fanatics.

Sad to see, but it looks as if the Phillies are circling the drain. Anyway,given what the country is facing, the World Series doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Oh come on! Johnny Damon has been terrific in the post season. It was great that he stole third! The Yankees are providing the New York area (at least) with some good old baseball fun. I don't, however, like the fact that Philly pitchers have been hitting the batters, especially Alex R. That's dirty play. It would be nice if they were more honorable.

Damon's run did not take place in a vacuum. It was the flip side of a ferocious at-bat that had its own cardiac moments. Whether it had happened before elsewhere or not, it hadn't happened in the ninth inning of a World Series game. After all, home runs get hit all the time, so what makes Carter's or Fisk's great? Yep, it was when they hit the suckers. That, and each generation of fans will always think of the one they saw themselves as the "greatest" in any comparison anyway. I was at Game 6 of the '77 series so I'll always think of Reggie's hat trick as the high point of my career as a fan, but if you think I'm going to get bogged down in an argument over Joe Carter or Kirby Puckett with a Jays or Twins fan, forget it. I already know they're not going to be any more rational about it than I will be.

Anyway, comparing a baserunning play (or a combined baserunning play with the duodenum-twisting at bat that set it up) with a complete game nine inning performance or a home run isn't particularly kosher. That's like asking whether Don Larsen's perfect game or Babe Ruth's called shot (legendary or not, but who cares?) was the greater "moment." Irrelevant.

What Damon did last night was a highlight play for the ages, its particular greatness nested in its moment and preserved there like a diamond in a kimberlite pipe. And it doesn't matter what anyone else did before or what might come next, and next after that.

The Damon play was intellligent baseball - something the Yankees have done well this postseason. Credit certainly to coaches who prep players, but also recognition of vetran players who seize opportunities and make the most of them. Not that NY hasn't had a few brain cramps themselves, but fewer than everyone else. Late inning production is another sign of the no panic, play 9 full innings attitude that NY has had all year.

Oops! Paper prints ad congratulating Phillies
Inquirer apologizes for advertisement celebrating back-to-back Series titles

The Damon 'double' steal was THE play of this World Series.
That's where smart scouting and paying attention pays off.

Fundamental baseball...the pitcher ALWAYS covers third just like he backs up the catcher on a throw to home...it's textbook playing and you learn it in little league.

9 pitches to Johnny in the 9th? An unbelievabel at-bat. Talking about taking the wind out of one's sails.

How would that be a 'nail in the coffin' The Red Sox humiliated New York in '04 in ways we will never see in MLB post season ever again. It is still the most incredible choke in the history of the 4 major sports - ever.

That at bat and the subsequent play will forever make Johnny Damon a true Yankee legend. I have seen many of these and it ranks up there with Bucky, Boone, Jackson, Chambliss, and others

Johnny Damon was never a Red Sock he will only be remembered as a Yankee now.

"Johnny D's hard fought winning at bat and ballsey steal of 2nd [with 2 outs]"

Sorry I'm a Damon fan (played for the local minor league club) but there is no way his stealing of 2nd was even in the same universe as ballsey. A corpse could steal off of Lidge. Base runners this season have stolen 2nd in 100% of the attempts when Lidge has been on the mound. Larry Anderson (radio color guy) likes to say that nobody gets a single off of Lidge they get a double delayed by a pitch.

I wouldnt say The Redsox humiliated The Yankees-------maybe if they swept them---the game went 7

losing after being up 3-0 is humiliating but they didnt get humiliated----there is a difference

If it was 'fundamental' 'textbook' 'little league' baseball that why was Lidge picking his nose on the mound with 3rd base open? You have to execute in this game. Yankees prove they're champs in all aspects of the game. It is a joy to watch them

if you want to hang your hat on that 1 series the red sux pulled out a series win that is sad, for 1 year the red sux beat the yankees, the yankees have owned the sox for a liftime. everyone talks about the yankee - red sox rilvery as the biggest in sports, to me it has been so one sided it is not even funny, the yankees are the hammer and the red sox are the nail year in and year out, for all of time. that one year that you are talking about the nail bent. big deal. i love hearing all the red sox fan talk about that one year, what a joke. lets talk present, yankees are 1 win away from #27 and the red sox didnt win a game this post season, pretty standard to me. go choke on your clam chowwwdar.....lololololol

Johnny D's performance last night shows again "Red Sox lost and Yankees WIN" again & again & again.... Shame on Epstein for letting his lead off hitter get away! And hey, look what its done for Johnny's image, he's a clean cut all American kid doing what he loves, playing baseball in New York for the Yanks in the World Series, unlike the Red Sox. Pennent # 27 is going to fly proud in the new stadium.

They didn't humiliate them?? Are you serious? The Yankees were 3 outs away from winning the pennant and the Sox came back and won FOUR, count them FOUR in a row. To throw a a little salt in the yankee wounds, the Sox won the pennant in yankee stadium and celebrated like wild indians on their own field!! IMHO, epitome of humility.

Too bad it took them 86 years to do it. After all of their game 7 losses over the years, they were bound to do something to reverse it. My hat's off to them for winning in 2004 and 07. However, the Yanks are still the team of the decade; making them the team of 2 centuries (so far). This is their 4th WS appearance since 2000 and hopefully their 2nd win. They have won a title in every decade since the 1920s except for the 80s (although they made it to the series in 81). Face it...they are the greatest sports franchise ever...period.

Hey Cluck, this is "The Show" and the World Series at that not some wanabee's working themselves up to the majors. I pitched in College and some semi-pro afterwards and my catchers backed me up if needed. Lidge and Carlos Ruiz his catcher and backup are Pros and are suppose to get the job done. NO EXCUSES!!! Johnny's was the man last night, and he's got the chance to do it again tonight. Ya gotta love him.

The Red Sox were favored to win the 2004 ALCS (Vegas had them winning it in 6 if I recall). The fact that they came back from being down 0-3 is irrelevant.

I have to believe that Damon, after seeing how the infield was positioned, had planned the secondary steal of third while he was still on first base. It was not at all a spur-of-moment decision after he he was safe at second. He had already planned he was going to try for third, too.

The Red Sox? They got swept in the first round. Red Sox fans only stick their heads out from under that rock once in a while now that 2004 and 2007 are over. The red sox might not even make the playoffs for another ten years or so. That play by Johnny Damon was one of the most heads up and daring plays I have seen in a long long time in World Series play. Not only did he have to be aware no one was covering third, he had to double check as he came up from the slide, then he had to be sure he could get off fast enough to outrun the third baseman to third. None of that was easy and it definitely was daring. Congrats Johnny Damon and congrats to the Yanks for another great world series win. One more to go and it will be 27, then Joe's number has to change

No question about it, Rich....he knew exactly what he was going to do. He who hesitates......
What was Lidge thinking?

Agreed, Damon's steal of 3rd was a 100% game-changer. Exciting he's going to be the 'idiot' who will be the first man since Babe Ruth to win a World Series as a Red Sox and Yankee. Way to go Johnny, make it happen again tonight!

Oops! Paper prints ad congratulating Phillies
Inquirer apologizes for advertisement celebrating back-to-back Series titles

There is also a 12.5% chance that they will print this again tomorrow :-)

Hey MaryMcM, Thats what I'm talkin about!!! Another nail in the coffin of the Red Sux. What a great stat to pick up on. Damon is determined and destined [as all the Yanks are] to finish it out tonight. One question, whats with the 'idiot' thing ? You can tell me at the celebration parade down Broadway in NYC next week.

I think it took an amazing amount of guts and talent to make that play. It was such a game changer that when ARod (who the Phillies should be ashamed of themselves for both dirty and dangerous tactics)got up to bat it seemed to me that there was no way he wasn't going to get a hit. The very look on his face said "If I don't do anything else for the rest of my life I'm going to bring him in." A Classic World Series moment.

Damon is definitely having a good year and good post season but let's not start revising history. Its been four years since he left the Red Sox for the Yankess and until this year he has not lived up to his $52 million dollar contract. So let's not get crazy about the Red Sox letting him go. They won a WS without him and he was not worth $52 million and still isnt. Last year Yankees fans wanted the guy banished to Siberia. One nice steal does not mean he is the reason the Yankees will win the WS. Signing of Texiera, CC and AJ had a little something to do with their current success, but maybe I'm wrong.

So should the Red Sox also be mad at themselves for letting Pedro go since he is in the WS with the Phillies?

Yes this IS one of the great plays ever in the WS. Think of the context. The Yankees were up 2-0, then 4-2. Bottom of the eighth the Phillies tie it 4-4. The Phillies are at home. If they win the game the Series is 2-2 and totally up for grabs. The Yankees go 1-2 and almost 3 in the top of the 9th. Damon all but has strike three but foul tips it and the catcher cant come up with it. Under great pressure he gets a hit and gets on. Then he steals 2nd and sees 3rd undefended. If he makes a mistake the Yankee threat is over. When I saw the play live you couldnt see third base in the camera view. I saw him steal 2nd then RUN PAST THE BAG! Whats he doing hes out!? He runs away from the inflieder and Im waiting for the throw to third to nail him. But no ones there! He's safe on 3rd! Unbelieveable!
If the Yankees go on to win the Series this play will be remembered by everyone who was involved in it on BOTH sides. For some it will be will awe and wonder and for others there'll be a lifetime of "what if".
Yeah the same thing has happened before but NEVER with so much on the line!

@32 It's been known since he came up that the way to pitch A-Rod is high and tight. There have been pitchers in the past who put it up under his chin, which might be a little much; the Phillies aren't doing that. They are pitching him inside a lot, and when you do that you risk hitting the batter. It's part of the game, and A-Rod hasn't always made a concerted effort to get out of the way.

Ryan Howard, after living a full life, died and went to Heaven.
When he got to Heaven, God was showing him around. They came to a modest little house with a faded Philly flag in the window.

"This house is yours for eternity, Ryan", said God. "This is very special, not everyone gets a house up here."

Ryan felt special, indeed and walked up to his house. On the way up, he noticed another house just around the corner. It was a beautiful, 3-story mansion with a blue and white, pinstripe sidewalk, a 50 foot flagpole with an enormous New York Yankee flag and a NY logo in every window.

Ryan looked at God and said, "God, I'm not trying to be ungrateful, but I have a question. I was a great Home Run hitter, gold-glove first baseman and I made the Hall of Fame."

God replied, "So what's your point, Ryan?"

"Well, why does Johnny Damon get a better house than me?"

God chuckled and said, "It's not Johnny's house, my son, it's mine."

I'm tired of everyone calling the Phils "The Champs". Last year they beat the Ray's... I'm sorry, but that just doesn't count...

I'm sure that if the Red Sox had taken the Ray's as seriously as the Phils did, they would've been "The Champs", because, no way would the Phils have beaten the Red Sox in 2008.

Beating a one-hit-wonder like the Tampa Bay Devil Rays doesn't make you a champion.

Stooooooopid azz, Philles. They sure screwed the pooch in Game 4.

Hey, Damon's steel was a nice, heads up play. It put the Yankees in position to win the game. But, don't forget that Yogi said "it ain't over till it's over". There is still baseball to be played. Also, I think Mays and McCovey made the play look better!

Mick: the pitcher covering third base on a stolen base attempt at second is fundamental baseball? The only thing fundamental on a steal of second is for the pitcher to get his head out of the way and hit the deck. It would have been head's up for Lidge to have covered third, but hardly a fundamental play they teach you in little league.

Hey, if the SHIFT is on, SOMEBODY has to cover 3b on a steal, and that's the pitcher's job.

He doesn't have to get there, just break toward 3b. If he does, he'll beat the runner there every time. After all, the runner has to pop up after a slide and then go 90' and all the pitcher has to do is duck out of the way of the throw, and cover 60' to 3b.

If he breaks toward 3b, the runner won't go.

Ordinarily, without the shift, all the pitcher has to do is get out of the way of the throw to 2b.

I don't know if this was one of the 10 "greatest" moments in WS history (the Perfect Game, Reggie's 3 HR, even the Tino/Brosius HRs on consecutive nights, not to mention Mazeroski, Joe Carter, the Unassisted Triple Play).

But this was hands down one of the SMARTEST plays in WS history, right up there with the fake Intentional Walk to Johnny Bench in 1972. It was the product not of chance (which Carter or Fisk's HRs were), it was the product of good, instinctual play and guile. Whether it was more premeditated or more instinctual is sort of irrelevant..."smart" baseball plays are all about positioning and reaction (the "Flip").

You know that it's a smart play because everyone in that stadium was in disbelief of what they'd just seen, not to mention even if we could see 3B on the TV feed, 95% of us wouldn't have thought anything of it being uncovered and what that meant for what Damon could do.

Give Damon his due here.

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